Brad Phillips – Hi Bruce. I should start, for the sake of full disclosure, by saying that you were the first person to collect my work, and gave me my first solo show in 2002. What first got you into collecting art?

Bruce Bailey – Well Brad, I must say we both owe a debt of gratitude to the brilliant editor of Canadian Art Magazine, Richard Rhodes, who introduced me to your work. He called me and said, “drop everything, you must take a look at the paintings of this young fellow Brad Phillips.” Rick has a great eye and he also wrote the finest book ever, called A First Book of Canadian Art which was written as a children’s or young adolescence’s introduction to Canadian art, but is really so sophisticated in its elegance and simplicity that I keep it out on a table and refer to it all the time. I also have a stack of about thirty copies I keep in a cupboard and give it as a present when friends bring children to visit me. In any event, when someone like Rick Rhodes says do something, one does it, and I cycled down Spadina Avenue and saw your paintings and realized we had a new genius in our midst – a strange pale inked alternative young rebel called Brad Phillips with beautiful eyes and very soft skin (laughs)! I suppose while I was thinking you were an eccentric character, you were thinking I was an eccentric myself (laughs). You seemed surprised that a guy in Toronto would appear within seven minutes of being ordered to do so by Rick Rhodes, buy a slew of works, and offer you a solo show at my private art project space in order to launch your career!
I have always been interested in art and as a young child I would draw Peter Rabbit and Friends for hours from different perspectives. I was taken to Europe when I was twelve for a “grand tour,” and that opened up the visual art world for me – the Louvre, and National Gallery London, and the Klimt’s in Vienna. When I won a scholarship at university in the 1970s, I bought my first artworks by Michael Snow and Eric Fischl.

Brad – And what have you collected over the years? I saw some amazing Peter Doig paintings at your house years ago. What have you been interested in lately? Also, where are you living now, and what works do you have hanging in your home?

Bruce – Well, I was a first or very early collector of Andre Ethier, Steven Shearer, Rodney Graham, Dawn Mellor, Paul P, Gursky, Demand, Doig, Kerry James Marshall, Fischl, Snow, Massey, Monkman, and Phillips. I tend to be there at the beginning, which mimics my interest in early stage business ventures.

Brad – What is something you’ve bought/acquired recently?

Bruce – I just bought a wonderful Geisha girl photographic triptych by Ron Terada from this terrific Vancouver art dealer called Catriona Jeffries. It fits into my identity series in my photographic collection. I also sponsored Mr. Terada’s solo exhibition at Justina Barnicke Gallery in January 2011, curated by the remarkable Barbara Fischer. I also just acquired a wonderful vintage Mapplethorpe portrait of Patti Smith from Olga Korper, who is one of our top dealers and a very lovely lady. Again it is part of my interest in identity for my photographic collection.
I live in a forest near Peterborough, Ontario. I have hanging here in this room a suite of four Elizabeth Peytons from1992 that I acquired at that time. I have hanging nearby two Old Master Dutch paintings from the 17th century. One of greyhounds and one of a dawn landscape with peasants, and these hang near a collection of bird’s eye and tiger maple Ontario furniture. I like to mix it up.

Brad – You had a gallery for a while in the early 2000s, or what you call an “arts incubator”. Living in Vancouver, there are really a handful, honestly, of what could be called contemporary art galleries, and there are a lot of young artists coming up who need space to exhibit – space besides artist run centres. I think there is a real vacuum here that could be filled by someone with ambition, similar to what you did in Toronto. Why do you think Canada, Toronto not being much different, is so difficult for artists to show in? We all have to try to find galleries in NY, to be seen, which is hard. I wonder what you think about the whole commercial gallery situation here.

Bruce – We have a small country. Of course Canada totally rocks. I mean Leonard Cohen, Glenn Gould, Alice Munro, Robert LePage…it really is sort of amazing our cultural influence despite our small size. I made a decade long commitment from 2000 to 2010 to showing talented artists who had no gallery representation in my non-profit artist space. It was an enormous amount of work, and I do not think I had any impact at all. Of course the individual artists benefited and were seriously enriched financially as one aspect was to sell their work to important collections. However, the art scene did not alter. I have a completely different philosophy now – I would just give cultural funds to the top five museums, and let the curators buy. And my advice to young artists would be to get out of Canada and show abroad.

Brad – I wouldn’t say you had no effect on the scene in Toronto. You brought artists like Tony Matelli and Ryan McGinley to Toronto, which made it apparent that success is not impossible – difficult, yes.
Can you tell me a bit about your relationship to Peter Doig, and how you came to acquire those paintings I saw at your place years ago? They are very seminal paintings by Peter. I’m curious as to how you came to see the incredible talent in Peter’s work.

Bruce – Well in addition to giving talented Canadian artists their first show and launching their careers, I also did the first Canadian exhibition for foreign artists such as Doig, Chapman brothers, Guillaume Bijl, Christian Jankowski and Tony Matelli etc. That was to create a dialogue and allow Canadian artists to have a foreign connection with the hope that the foreign artists would assist the Canadian artists with referrals and gallery connections. I tried very hard to be a good ambassador for Canada, and I think we had some success. The Chapman brothers stayed for ten days and had the time of their lives, they later said. And it was gratifying that the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts “got” me, and took my Chapman/Goya exhibition to Montreal with a catalogue.
With respect to Doig, I saw a work in 1993 at the Miro Gallery on Cork Street, and bought it there and then had an immediate studio visit. That is how it all started. Painting was out of favour then, and video art was all the rage, so I was a welcome and rare visitor, and of course, Peter is a delightful person and so it was a great joy to become friends. His parents live only a few miles from me, so it has been lovely. His daughter Celeste is a divine creature whom I would love to call my daughter-in-law.

Brad – So, with respect to the artists you’ve collected, often there is a personal connection or a friendship. Do you buy work from assholes? What has your relationship with Kent Monkman been? He seems like an ideal artist for you to collect. The flamboyant-ness, the old school Canadian painting technique, the incredible craftsmanship. How did you find Kent and what are you doing with him currently?

Bruce – Well it depends on the artist. I have a personal friendship with Michael Snow, and of course had an intimate relationship with the late Paterson Ewen and the late Betty Goodwin. John Massey and Peter Doig are friends. I think, with respect to the artists I have tried to help, it was more important to place their works in other collections such as those of Whitney Museum trustees. Of course I tried to buy at least one work for my personal collection as Peggy Guggenheim observed in her memoirs that the artists appreciate that gesture. I do have works of artists I have assisted where I have no personal relationship or friendship. I also have friendships with artists where I am not interested in their work, which of course can create difficulties in the friendship. With respect to Kent Monkman, I would say we have a friendly professional relationship. I owe a debt to Stephen B. Smart and David Liss of MOCCA for both calling me up and asking me to help launch Kent’s career. I am sort of the Ghostbuster of Canadian art – “who ya gonna call?” kind of thing (laughs). Ironically, I spent the most time launching Kent’s career due to the content of his work, which created a barrier in a conservative society. He now has works in the National Gallery of Canada, The AGO, The Smithsonian, The Montreal Museum of Fine Arts -works in the hands of the most important private collectors and has four dealers, two domestic and two international. And of course, I sponsored his book designed beautifully by Barr Gilmore.

Brad – Tell me a bit about what you have been doing in Québec the last few years. You mentioned to me that there is an aspect of nation building involved, wanting to incorporate Québec into the international dialogue etc.

Bruce – Well, since 2000 I decided to do my cultural donations mostly in Québec. I do not believe one can run down at referendum time and wave the flag. I think we have to act as a nation daily if we want a nation. So I reached out to the museums and the curators and developed a personal relationship with Louise Déry at UQAM, Marcel Brisebois at MOCA Montréal, and Guy Cogeval at MBAM and so forth, and helped them with art donations and shows. So it was an Anglo-Saxon farmer from Ontario treating Québeckers as his brothers and sisters. It certainly has been an eye opener into our country dynamics, and I have learned that we share so much from French Canadians. I recently agreed to be on the art acquisition committee at The Montréal Museum of Fine Arts, and have already learned so much from the brilliant Montréal curator, Stephane Aquin, doing curatorial artist studio visits. Culture matters to me, and it really matters to Québeckers, so I am so happy to be on the same wavelength at last with people for whom culture is as important as water and air.

Brad – Who do you think is the most under appreciated Canadian artist? And who do you think is overrated in Canada?

Bruce – Most under-appreciated internationally would be John Massey – his recent exhibition After Le Mépris was a highlight of 2010 exhibitions anywhere in the world, and should be a museum exhibition at MoMA or The Pompidou Centre. (I should disclose that I have the largest holdings of Massey in the world, and my pal Ydessa Hendeles would be a close second in holdings with The National Gallery of Canada).  As for the most over-rated Canadian artist, there can be no such thing as an over-rated Canadian artist. All Canadian artists have a special song to sing – we are a great people with a rich cultural heritage and every Canadian artist has cultural worth and significance.
Massey is very appreciated by the cognoscenti in Canada, and has influenced artists such as Jeff Wall and Stan Douglas and a whole generation of new artists as he is a revered professor of art at U of T, so he is really our Joseph Beuys in that regard. One cannot be considered a serious Canadian art collector unless Massey is included in one’s collection. His most recent exhibition, After Le Mépris was a tour-de-force, one of the finest bodies of work I saw anywhere in the world in the past two years. It was just acquired by the Albright Knox Museum in Buffalo. That was great, because I am usually frustrated that we have enormous cultural talent here that never sees the light of day abroad. That is why I spent four years working my tush off on the Chairman’s Council at The Whitney Museum in New York. I was able to initiate the dialogue to end the rule that only American artists could exhibit at The Whitney Biennale. So now any artist can be included, whether or not they live and work in New York. Since that rule change Canadian artists have been in every Whitney Biennale, and Michael Snow has been included in each one. That is actually the most important work I have done for Canadian artists in a whole decade of activism for Canadian culture – far more important than my exhibitions and launching of solo careers.

The Whitney rule was a real “game changer” for Canadian artists. Oh, heavens to betsy! That reminds me, I should take a set of Massey’s images down to the curators there next week, as I am going to the AADA Fair on Park Avenue.

Brad – Any other frustrations with the Canadian art scene? Or ideas about how to build a stronger art scene locally and nationally?

Bruce – I am frustrated about the complete absence of Canadian artists invited to public museum and gallery events. One would think it was self-evident: no artists, no art exhibitions, right? You would think the well- heeled financial types could buy drink tickets for the artist community, and have them at all the openings. Instead, you have cultural apartheid with no artists at museum openings and all these business folk and socialites – some gorgeous ones by the way – check out this Trinity Jackman gal Brad! We need to enliven these parties with our fabulous artists. Barbara Fischer at Barnicke Gallery is the only one who tries to do this, bless her heart.

Brad – What is the greatest piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Bruce – Do not cry as a woman for what you cannot defend as a man.

Brad – I asked this question to Jeff Wall in the last interview, so I’ll put it to you as well. If you have any advice for young artists coming up, what would it be?

Bruce – Do not listen to the advice of others; listen solely to your heart and be true to yourself.

Brad – Reflecting on knowing you for 10+ years, it strikes me that you are very much like a character in a Karen Kilimnik painting. Your Rolls Royce, your brocade, your rubberized Gucci trench coat, your magnetic glamour sensibility, antechambers, rooms behind bookcases, love of Spanish arias; as an aging, happily married gay man, what is it that strikes you most about Ms. Kilimnik’s paintings? They seem very much suited to you, in temperament and style.

Bruce – Well my children and girlfriend will laugh when they read you describe me as “a gay man”! And my faithful steed Bold Magic, who is the current great passion of my life, would also perhaps snort in derision when I tell him about this question. ‘Tis true I married a man; why one assumes this entails I am “gay” is beyond my comprehension. All those ghastly plaid shirts, Kodiak boots and blue jeans not to mention “The Seven Gay voices” – perish the thought! Like Gore Vidal and any public school boy, I understand that there can be homosexual acts, but certainly do not believe in any such thing as “faggots” as a sui generis species. My secret to not aging is to do as Picasso did; try to paint each day as a child. Meaning of course, to take a child-like wonder in the world. Funny you should mention Karen Kilimnik, as I have some great artworks by her – we are sort of birds of a feather, you know. I keep a photograph of Emma Peel (Diana Rigg in The Avengers) on my desk and Karen is fixated with her, and in horses and carriages as well. Karen and I are in fact the Last of the Romantics: I long for the olden days when messages were delivered on horseback or by pigeon, and believe in chivalry. Above my bed is a dream-like painting of a horse and carriage by Karen with glitter, and opposite a Kilimnik Harlequin singing in a forest. Those are actually the mirror dualities and realities of my life – a forest man to the core and a dreamer. One can fall into and be absorbed by her world – an alternate to the realities of quotidian daily life. Surely that is the ultimate hallmark of greatness in an artist, the creation of an alternate world.